Spoiler alert. If you are not current with Game of Thrones on HBO then catch up and come back after you have, unless you don’t mind being spoiled by discussion about events in S5E06 “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken”.
Matt is joined by NBRs Axel Foley (@WAxelFoley) from Podcast Littlefell, and DJ Timm Hines (@DJTimmHines) from BN4IA.com, as well as by BRs Mike Hull (@fifthcolumnfilm) from The Captain Punishment Adventure Hour and Donald (@DonaldJr) to talk about the aforementioned episode.
SPECIAL SPOILER ALERT! At the end of the show (tagged on after the end music) Mike, Donald, and Matt carry on a book-related discussion as it pertains to the episode.
Find all links at podcastwinterfell.com and be sure to participate in the Fan Call In Shows on Monday nights (more info at the website in the 2015 Schedule tab)!
27 thoughts on “PW243: Initial Reaction S5E06”
WORST episode ever. DornK=cartoon-like fight scene that could have been staged in a convalescent home. Arya-felt rushed, felt wrong, and just meh. King’s Landing scene was OK, maybe watchable if it was not surrounded by 45 minutes of crap. Winterfell- Do I go with the, what you don’t see is worse due to your imagination running wild, or do I say D&D did a diservice by not just letting it all out and showing what a vile, violent, non-sexual act rape is by playing it out in front of the camera. Haven’t we seen this via Kahl D and Dany already? Maybe they will go Luke and Laura like they did with Kahl D and Dany and S&L will get HBO shipped and fall madly in love. Get a clue and a new marriage night scenario on paper you lazy bastards. This show is total suckage and for me just makes next week a non-event. For the first time since seeing that magical mystical wondrous gate rise in 1:1 I am apathetic about what next week will bring. I am a bit pissed GRRM let them do this. Sand Snakes…pffft Lame Fakes more like. *runs off screaming in frustration*
S&R not S&L…sorry..rage typing
Sonza took Miranda’s advice! She played the innocent maiden and put on a show that would not bore him.
Reek is gonna end up on Sansa’s side i think. Arya is getting a chance to settle a few things and that fight scene in dorn was shattneresque!!
Cersie Lannister just killed her son with that stunt..
Thanks to all for your thoughts. They have been noted – Matt
Kind of lost in everything is how Bronn was slashed during the fight in Dorne. The way it quickly showed Bronn’s reaction seemed to me to be significant. Then, when you remember that Oberyn dips his blades in poison, it stands to reason that at least one of the Sand Snakes might do the same thing. Is this the beginning of the end for Bronn?
Good catch! – Matt
I agree with comparison between Dany and Drogo, wasn’t that rape as well.
Dark Sansa could have taken it quietly but was playing on Ramsay’s mind by the moaning, I think Littlefinger knew this was coming and told her how to act.
Also I think you missed the possibility that the sand snakes knife the cut Bronn might have had poison on it
I was just as terribly upset by the Dany/Drogo thing at the time, but wasn’t podcasting about the show at the time. Also, she wasn’t moaning. She was in anguish, and I think turning this into some point about Sansa trying to fool Ramsay is actually pretty awful. – Matt
Can we be logical for a second. This is the world they live in. This is the world WE LIVE IN. How many young women in Nigeria a few months ago got kidnapped and forced to marry terrorist members? Wasn’t it like 300 or so? Come on. I’m pretty sure Sans was aware that by marrying someone, she’d be consummating the marriage. I’m sure she hoped it would be more gentle and I’m quite sure she didn’t want an audience. But, Sansa new that sex would obviously be a part of the wedding night.
And to clarify, the scene definitely upset me. It was very hard to watch. l just don’t get the outrage. I’m also not a book reader. I view the show as it stands on its own.
Noted. – Matt
Sansa had no idea what Ramsay is like when she made the decision at the hill. According to Bryan Cogman, even Littlefinger didn’t know. What makes it even worse is that Sophie Turner is 19 years old, she was 18 at the time of the filming. It makes me really uncomfortable that in the first season after she turns old enough, they make her character go through this. Maybe this was something the writers planned all along for Sansa, but If Sophie was a year younger they couldn’t have done it. And I think they shouldn’t have, it doesn’t add anything to the story but shock value in my opinion. We didn’t need it to know Ramsay is a monster, it was established in the past two seasons and it sets back Sansa’s character and story arc as well.
The show has been criticised for heavily featuring violence against women, especially last season, I don’t know if this was the best move to make. It probably won’t hurt the show, even if they lose some viewers and I’m still deciding if I’m one of them. As a book reader, I’m unhappy with several of the adaptation choices *coughs* Dorne *coughs* and what they’ve done to Sansa might be the last straw.
Also, this is nitpicking and I’m sorry about it, but it really bothers me when someone refers to the world of the show/books as if it was a period drama setting. Westeros, while it is inspired by and resembles medieval times, is a fantasy world, there is no “back then”.
Thank you for your comments! – Matt
Appreciated your thoughts on the podcast Matt. I agree it would have been better/more effective to show the dread on Sansa’s and Theon’s faces as Ramsay orders him to stay and watch and then the door just closes. I wish the show would show more restraint sometimes – we all knew (as did Sansa by going through with the marriage) what would happen on the wedding night. I can only hope that they make something of it later. I was very bothered by the depiction of rape at Craster’s Keep last season but I felt the women burning the keep to the ground a couple episodes later was a good emotional payoff.
Thanks for your thoughts Mary. – Matt
I am shocked at the non-reaction to the Sansa rape scene.
Ramsay purposefully made Theon stay and watch, and made sure Sansa knew he was watching, to make it so Sansa did not want to have sex. Intentionally. He wanted to intimidate her and let her know he was enjoying seeing her completely powerless, and wanted her to know there was a witness to seeing her completely powerless because he wanted her first time to be rape. Rape is about power, and I thought the scene was executed quite well to show the scene was about power. Normal sex would be too boring for him.
Thanks for your thoughts! – Matt
One problem for Ramsey, Sansa survived enough not to be affected by his petty games. She is hurt, but not in a way he is expecting/hoping for.
Thanks for your thoughts!- Matt
Poor Sansa – she so strongly associated her persona with Winterfell that it seems Ramsay had to conquer her too. That final scene reinforced why Ned Stark disliked the Boltons and just how evil Ramasy is. Yet, aside Reek, it was very similar to Danerys’ s wedding night.
Just like so many of us that return to a place we left years earlier, she clicked back into some of her childhood behaviours. But Sansa’s sarcastic pride won’t help her without the rest of her family to support her.
She may be able to use her horrible experience to her advantage. Its just so sad that she had the experience in the first place.
My daydream scene… Brienne beheading Ramsay while saying, “The Starks send their regards”
Thank you for your thoughts! – Matt
1. Sansa is made to remember who she is despite anything that happens to her. Arya is made to forget who she is and find her strength in becoming no one (or someone else, as mentioned in the podcast).
2. All women have different perceptions about rape and all of them are valid. Some get stronger from the experience (while others get damaged, which is NoT a sign of weakness), because “my body will not dictate who I am”. Sansa just happens to be that kind of a woman. While being raped is traumatic to her as any other woman, she does not get bent/broken from it, she knows who she is and what must be done. So I agree with one of the participants that she knew exactly what to expect and that her rape scene was about Theon.
As a former unsullied who has caught up on the books now I have mixed feelings about the changes between Book Sansa’s storyline and Show Sansa’s storyline. Maybe horrific marriage night survivor Sansa will emerge more powerful than one might imagine. I agree the last scene of GoT episode 6 season 5 was very upsetting but will wait to see if it has any bearing on the rest of the series. At least the camera cut away before the dastardly deed was done.
On a lighter note, I’m not a great winner of raffles etc, but a few weeks ago I partook in the Watchers on the Wall competition to win a Joffrey figurine. No offence to your friend, Bubba, but what I put was something like “I’m not sure if I’d want the likes of him looking at me” (i.e. the likes of Joffrey not Bubba). Notwithstanding what I said, my name came out of the hat (or however they chose the winner) and I now have a King Joffrey figurine on my table (though he is still in his box).
I’m sure Bubba and Catfish are very jealous of your win! LOL And thanks for your comments. – Matt
“Not rape” ???? Are you serious, Donald? Rape is sex where someone does not say “yes.” Just because she didn’t verbally say no, she obviously was not consenting. Her dress was ripped and she was bent over and moaned in agony. We have to use today’s definition of rape, and not use arranged marriage and time period arguments. You are blaming her as a victim by saying that she knew what she was in for. That is absolutely ridiculous. You need to think of this show on a higher level, of it being a work of fiction created by real world men, and that this scene was constructed.
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